UT2007: Thoughts?

[law.of.averages]

Hoss,

the shield gun has it's strengths...

reflecting shock blobs back at noobs. I can't believe they're letting this go

preventing falling damage

boosting a jump

backward long dodge-jump... In CTF, you can really eat up road this way. for a non-CTF example... you can jump one end of deck-17 clear to the other if it's hit right

and yes... in TDM, using it to stay alive long enough for a team-mate to nail the guy chasing you


I have mastered none of these. I am the law.

[Ace]

Agreed 100% on the guns. The weapons have always been the primary factor that keeps me coming back to the UT series, and will undoubtedly be the reason that I give 2k7 a fair shot.
I still think that the shock rifle is the most original, and badass weapon to ever grace a FPS

As for the translocator, it is an absolutely standard part of the game - in CTF. I'm not much of a CTF'er, but I don't know if it makes sense in DM/TDM.

Definitely agree with the shock, didn't mention it because it wasn't getting changed. (shows they haven't lost all their senses yet)

There are a couple of reasons why I liked the translocator, it added to the speed of the game, added an unknown element of do I use it for movement, defensive, or offense, and it threw map control right out the window. When I watch the great players, most of the game to them is predicting what's going to happen. In almost every situation in those games there is a point where a kill is made, then from that point on it's the other person controling the map and doing their best to spawn kill the other guy. No doubt that takes talent, but what happens when instead of 10 seconds it takes that person to spawn and move to a gun now it takes 5 seconds and you can't predict what hallway the other guy needs to run down because he could just as easily toss his TL through the window?

That's what ultimately doomed in DM/TDM, it added an element that couldn't be adjusted for by pro gamer types. This slowning down movement is BS. Running, jumping, around a map is friggin boring. Fighting 1v1 with somebody and watching them disappear right out from under your nose because they hid their TL prior to the fight...that's interesting. Facing an oppent who has a hitscan, when you don't, closing the distance by dodging shots only using the TL to get in his face and flaking him point blank when you get there...that takes balls. As much crying that takes place when the pro gamer is fully loaded with health and shield takes a goop to the face because he made a mistake....it doesn't compare to the internal grief TLing his ass in the same situation because not only do you have to get your TL in the right spot, but also you have to know when to TL. That's not a one shot "luck shot", he got double t-bagged.

Bottom line for me, it's different and it changes how the game is played. UT will ultimately go the other direction and most likely make the game even more boring, but I'll continue to hope that they add something like the TL that recreates FPS's.

[Hoss]

Ah! So you will now need more skill to avoid "shock blobs", need more skill to prevent from "falling." The "hammer jump" is just as effective as the Shield. You might need a little more skill though because if you don't time it right - this powerful hammer can jack you up! The noise this thing make when pumped - and you know someone is coming at you - MUCH more intimidating than the clicking of the Shield when pumped.

[nonstop]

I'm sorry I can't hear you guys, I have Civilization IV turned up too loud.

[Naix]

Can you imagine someone new firing up the game, doing the tutorial and then logging into say Fractionary?

bastard, quit making fun of me!

[dXII][Pa]

2k7 will be a good game. I have no doubt about it. Will people moan about the changes? Certainly. But that has been the case with every sequal of a game so it's nothing to be worried about.

I will not miss the shield gun. It's great in 2k4 but 2k7 will be a new game, with new movement, new weapon balance and new tricks to be learned. In UT there was no shield and nobody, afaik, screamed "omg I fell down but I would have survived if I had a shieldgun". Different games, different rules.

I dissagree about UT being more noob friendly. It WAS more spammy, had more overpowered weapons (6 loaded rox, the oh so easy to use sniper, the saw movement of the link and so on) but that did not help a beginner really. It just meant that as a more experienced player you had a larger arsenal of weapons to use.

I loved playing CTF in UT. The unlimited transloc made for some really intense games (CTF has never been the same in 2k3 and 2k4) but putting it into DM mode... well, bad idea IMO. In CTF you use it to get to the fight, in DM you use it to avoid fighting. Sure, you can use it to get close to someone but in all honesty, people will mostly use it to get away when they run low on life and armor. 1vs1, DM and TDM is all about mapcontrol (the reason why I seldom play those gamemodes anymore) and it should stay that way.

About the changed movements, ah well, I think Epic will balance the scale and weapons to make them fit well together. I loved the boostdodge in 2k3 but when they removed that one in 2k4 I just adopted and moved on. Same with the lg (a weapon I hated when it was introduced but it quickly grew on me) and the slower moving shock balls.

It would be nice if they balanced the game so that a lowpinger did not have a hughe advantage over a highpinger solely based on shock and lg. The use of newnet has turned an already hitscan dominated game into a shock-lg-shock game with people having 60%+ accuracy on those weapons without solving the lowping-highping problem. And it IS a problem because the 2k4 community is not as big as others, meaning that it would greatly improve the gaming if there were no disputes about pingrape and pl all the time.

One thing that I really worries me about 2k7 is if they get so carried away by graphics that the average computer can't run it and the game will be so cluttered by little details that the skins won't be visible without using brigthskins mods. I never needed any brightskins in UT but playing 2k4 without them are not fun anymore. I wanna see my opponents. I don't wanna have to sneak around or force skins to be able to compete. Good, solid hitsounds is another thing I would like to be included but that is secondary to be able to see what goes on.

[nonstop]

I dissagree about UT being more noob friendly. It WAS more spammy, had more overpowered weapons (6 loaded rox, the oh so easy to use sniper, the saw movement of the link and so on) but that did not help a beginner really. It just meant that as a more experienced player you had a larger arsenal of weapons to use.

Pa you disagreed about the noob friendliness of ut99. That's funny because the designers of ut2k7 themselves said their trying to slow things down and be more like ut99 so more less skilled players can enjoy the game. Some good points above bro but on that one your dead wrong.

[dXII][Pa]

Pa you disagreed about the noob friendliness of ut99. That's funny because the designers of ut2k7 themselves said their trying to slow things down and be more like ut99 so more less skilled players can enjoy the game. Some good points above bro but on that one your dead wrong.

In that case I think Epic has forgotten how badly you could own someone (and get owned) in UT. I do agree somewhat that the learning curve is steeper when it comes to movement in 2k4 but to be honest, the bunnyjumpers will get owned no matter what. I've been playing the UT series since Unreal was released and I saw far more "owning of noobs" back in 99 than I do now. Part of that is due to the fact that first person shooters has been around for longer now and people know the basis of them now. The lesser skilled players of today would be good players by 99 standard. But back then, UT was by far from a friendly game to beginners. And for someone completly new to the fps genre, it STILL isn't.

[Houdini]

As long as the worst noob ever calls me a hacker once in awhile it is all worth it.

[BeerNut]

In that case I think Epic has forgotten how badly you could own someone (and get owned) in UT. I do agree somewhat that the learning curve is steeper when it comes to movement in 2k4 but to be honest, the bunnyjumpers will get owned no matter what. I've been playing the UT series since Unreal was released and I saw far more "owning of noobs" back in 99 than I do now. Part of that is due to the fact that first person shooters has been around for longer now and people know the basis of them now. The lesser skilled players of today would be good players by 99 standard. But back then, UT was by far from a friendly game to beginners. And for someone completly new to the fps genre, it STILL isn't.

Hmmmm... I'm not sure that I am following you on the time line regarding who would be good when... but having played through UT99 pretty extensively online (Pubs), it was ABSOLUTELY more friendly to new players than the 2k* series.

The general formula of UT99 was (Overpowered weapons + more limited movement + generally higher ping environment) = Luck kills for new players.
Sure a newer player wouldn't dominate a server, but you could step in, load up 6 rockets, and get a few lucky kills without really understanding the game. This is NOT the case in 2k*... A new player charging at you in straight line with assault rifle blazing will likely finish the match with a zero score if the other players are even remotely skilled. With lower powered weapons and more complex movement, a veteran will likely go untouched by a newer player in 2k*.

The bottom line is: If a one player is somewhat better than another player, and they were dual in both games:

UT99: The better player would win like 30-5
UT2k*: The better player would win 30-0

Those 5 kills are important to someone new, as at least they did 'something'.

[Houdini]

Just thought of a great new improvement they could add. I think that when ever someone gets all blown to bits and they then type "lag" or some reference containing lag they get kicked and the game automatically uninstalls.

Just one mans dream.

[nonstop]

In that case I think Epic has forgotten how badly you could own someone (and get owned) in UT. I do agree somewhat that the learning curve is steeper when it comes to movement in 2k4 but to be honest, the bunnyjumpers will get owned no matter what. I've been playing the UT series since Unreal was released and I saw far more "owning of noobs" back in 99 than I do now. Part of that is due to the fact that first person shooters has been around for longer now and people know the basis of them now. The lesser skilled players of today would be good players by 99 standard. But back then, UT was by far from a friendly game to beginners. And for someone completly new to the fps genre, it STILL isn't.

Hmmmm... I'm not sure that I am following you on the time line regarding who would be good when... but having played through UT99 pretty extensively online (Pubs), it was ABSOLUTELY more friendly to new players than the 2k* series.

The general formula of UT99 was (Overpowered weapons + more limited movement + generally higher ping environment) = Luck kills for new players.
Sure a newer player wouldn't dominate a server, but you could step in, load up 6 rockets, and get a few lucky kills without really understanding the game. This is NOT the case in 2k*... A new player charging at you in straight line with assault rifle blazing will likely finish the match with a zero score if the other players are even remotely skilled. With lower powered weapons and more complex movement, a veteran will likely go untouched by a newer player in 2k*.

The bottom line is: If a one player is somewhat better than another player, and they were dual in both games:

UT99: The better player would win like 30-5
UT2k*: The better player would win 30-0

Those 5 kills are important to someone new, as at least they did 'something'.

Actually Beer and I have both played all of them extensively. I was very into ut99 and the only thing I can fault beer for in everything he has said here is that he won't join me in Ti!!!

[dXII][Pa]

UT99: The better player would win like 30-5
UT2k*: The better player would win 30-0

Those 5 kills are important to someone new, as at least they did 'something'.

If you're talking about 1vs1 I think that in UT the better player would still win by 30-0. Spawnrape was even worse back then without the shield.

But I agree, a few kills will make the new player feel good. That of course has nothing to do with how hard it is to learn how to play the game. Lucky kills happends all the time in 2k4.

[nonstop]

UT99: The better player would win like 30-5
UT2k*: The better player would win 30-0

Those 5 kills are important to someone new, as at least they did 'something'.

If you're talking about 1vs1 I think that in UT the better player would still win by 30-0. Spawnrape was even worse back then without the shield.

But I agree, a few kills will make the new player feel good. That of course has nothing to do with how hard it is to learn how to play the game. Lucky kills happends all the time in 2k4.

MAN DOWN!!!

[BeerNut]

UT99: The better player would win like 30-5
UT2k*: The better player would win 30-0

Those 5 kills are important to someone new, as at least they did 'something'.

If you're talking about 1vs1 I think that in UT the better player would still win by 30-0. Spawnrape was even worse back then without the shield.

But I agree, a few kills will make the new player feel good. That of course has nothing to do with how hard it is to learn how to play the game. Lucky kills happends all the time in 2k4.

Actually... My dual example is real. Better players that I could get a few kills on in UT99 absolutely skunked me in 2k*.
Once they locked the map down, it was generally all over. The thing is, in UT99 the enforcers actually packed a punch (25/shot), and unlike the ASS rifle, they are AIM-based. If I could get a few shots in before dying, I could finish them with the Enforcer right after spawn (Before they could re-stack).
In UT2k*, I may not get immediately spawn raped (because of the shield), but I could never get map control back either.

As for the Lucky kills... Of course we all get lucky kills, but I disagree that they are not tied to the game. A lucky shot in UT99 often meant death. A lucky shot in UT2k* just means my shield is going up, and I am going to re-stack.