you know what we need to do?

[Deadly]

I like TAM because it's more inherently fair.

There's been many a TDM match in which I got fragged repeatedly before I could collect a decent, meaning any non default, weapon.

TDM favors the best players at the expense of the rest. TAM does a little to level the playing field.

Which isn't to say that I don't enjoy TDM at times, too, because I do.

That being said:

There once was an player named Ace
Who posted a reply in this place
He chimed in that day...
He rhymed in to say
"Boo" to all who are not Ace

[Sideous Prime]

nice rhyme! LMAO deadly

[BeerNut]

I like TAM because it's more inherently fair.

Gah... I dunno. In TDM every freshly spawned player starts with the same 2 weapons. Last time I checked, this is the very definition of fair.

TDM favors the best players at the expense of the rest. TAM does a little to level the playing field.

Yep, gotta agree with you on that one. TAM definitely narrows the gap between higher and lower skilled players.... This is definitely not a bad thing, especially from the standpoint of a newer player. My only beef with the gametype is that it achieves this goal by simply removing elements of the game that I find enjoyable:
Going on amp runs, controlling the 100a, tactical retreats to heal, balls-out suicide kills (see Sid), etc...
... All things that I personally have liked about the UT series since I started playing in 99, that don't payoff in TAM.

In the end it's all personal preference, and TAM gets enough right to where I do find it enjoyable from time to time... It's just that it tends to feel like a checkers -vs- chess comparison for me.
(and I really tend to suck at TDM after playing too much TAM)

[Deadly]

I like TAM because it's more inherently fair.

Gah... I dunno. In TDM every freshly spawned player starts with the same 2 weapons. Last time I checked, this is the very definition of fair.

Well, if you call respawning into a group of fully armed players and repeatedly get fragged before you can reach another weapon, fair... I guess we can agree to disagree on the definition of fair.

It seems to me that fairness requires that I have an equal chance to use my skill against another player. If I have shield gun and assault rifle and the other players have a full weapons load out or even
a spam and a hit scan weapon how can I not be at a disadvantage?

As I wrote above, I frequently enjoy TDM. I just accept the rules and play. I shrug at the unfairness and let it go at that. But, shrugging or not, I do notice it.

[Ace]

There's always going to be situations where things are going to become unfair, in every game type. For as hard as TAM tries to level the playing field, I sometimes find it anything but. My favorite example is when teams are unevenly balanced with skilled players. The 30 extra points of health does nothing for you when your whole team is dead and you have 3 shots coming at you vs. the one you get to shoot back.

Same situation in TDM, the final score won't be close, but I guarantee I'll be happier because it won't be a constant 3 v 1 situation.

There are tricks to every game type, the game within the game is knowing them. Anybody who fights the same style for TAM, TDM, TDM without weapon stay, and 1v1's isn't going to be good across the board.

TAM: I go for pot shots early to keep my own health high and hopefully give teammates an advantage when fighting a guy with at least an LG shot into him/her later in the round

TDM: This depends how the game is flowing, but I have no problem dying. Kill ratio is the only thing that matters to me, if I can take out two people before I die, that's a win. Kill as fast as I can with no regard for staying alive.

TDM Weapon stay off: The most important thing is not dying. Get the weapons I need, don't die, fight only in engagements where I know I'll win.

1v1: I don't time amp or the 100, so that's the big whole in my game. Playing against somebody that does though, I use that against them because I know that's where they'll be and how bad they want it. Either power up does them no good if they have to take two shots to get it.

It all comes down to adjusting your game to fit what is going on. There are unfair situations, just have to know how best to deal with them.

[BeerNut]

Well, if you call respawning into a group of fully armed players and repeatedly get fragged before you can reach another weapon, fair... I guess we can agree to disagree on the definition of fair.

Getting spawn raped multiple times can definitely be frustrating; but I wouldn't say that it is "unfair".

Everyone is on equal footing at the start of a match. If one team is able to control the PUP's or guns to the point where they can spawn rape you, that is the result of superior play; not some unfair advantage that was handed to them.

It seems to me that fairness requires that I have an equal chance to use my skill against another player. If I have shield gun and assault rifle and the other players have a full weapons load out or even
a spam and a hit scan weapon how can I not be at a disadvantage?

You are at a disadvantage at that one moment during the match, but that doesn't make the entire gametype unfair. Based on this example, a "fair" fight hardly ever happens, even in TAM. Constantly changing conditions of health amount, ammo count, terrain conditions, etc... generally will always give one player at least a slight advantage. The more skilled players are able to give themselves more of these advantages, but the fact that either player could put themselves in a better position to get a kill makes the gametype fair.

Edit: Sorry to sound redundant Ace... your post appeared before I could submit.

[Deadly]

Well, if you call respawning into a group of fully armed players and repeatedly get fragged before you can reach another weapon, fair... I guess we can agree to disagree on the definition of fair.

Getting spawn raped multiple times can definitely be frustrating; but I wouldn't say that it is "unfair".

Everyone is on equal footing at the start of a match. If one team is able to control the PUP's or guns to the point where they can spawn rape you, that is the result of superior play; not some unfair advantage that was handed to them.

It seems to me that fairness requires that I have an equal chance to use my skill against another player. If I have shield gun and assault rifle and the other players have a full weapons load out or even
a spam and a hit scan weapon how can I not be at a disadvantage?

You are at a disadvantage at that one moment during the match, but that doesn't make the entire gametype unfair. Based on this example, a "fair" fight hardly ever happens, even in TAM. Constantly changing conditions of health amount, ammo count, terrain conditions, etc... generally will always give one player at least a slight advantage. The more skilled players are able to give themselves more of these advantages, but the fact that either player could put themselves in a better position to get a kill makes the gametype fair.

Edit: Sorry to sound redundant Ace... your post appeared before I could submit.

Beer, you and Ace make some good points.

To clarify, I don't think the whole game type is unfair, just the respawning system. And, it apparently hasn't bothered me enough to prevent me from playing.

And, although I can appreciate your thinking, I guess that we will continue to have somewhat differing notions of the ill defined concept "fairness" in certain specific aspects of UT DM and TAM.

[myxxplyxx]

wow too much thought....


find weapons...shoot enemies!

I like both of them.