It's not that much money...

[Avaris]

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2007/Daily ... _0209.html

Because everyone knows that 8.8 billion dollars suddenly disappearing isn't a big deal- I mean it could've been lost in the couch. Honestly. Clearly something is going on when 363 tons of money that were meant to be used for the reconstruction of Iraq are nowhere to be found.

Discuss.

[pewterdragn]

that money is so stolen.

[Deadly]

The missing $8 billion is an example of the management style and planning skills of a big govenment in the hands of a ruling party that says that they dislike big govenment because of it's inefficiency and wastefulness. Can anyone say self fulfilling phrophacy?

I'm actually much more concerned about this:
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/021007C.shtml

The article is from a U.K. newspaper The Guardian.

Yes Pork, the link is to a site that publishes reports and editorials that are uniformly critical of Bush and Company. Nevertheless, I think the article is good journalism, and stands on its own merits.

[law.of.averages]

That's what happens when you use cash.

For the next immoral war, I propose we send our victims barnes & noble gift cards.

[Houdini]

They talking about Iran Deadly? Only if Isreal does not strike first that is what I think our Governement is hoping for. Honestly and I know just about everyone here totally disagrees with this but if President Houdini was in office I would kill them all starting with Saudi Arabia. I know there are tons of good people over there but they are not good enough to control the bad element so how good are they? I know the Saudi's are our only friends over there but seeing 97% of the September 11th highjackers came from the kingdom I would start with them with their gay looking beards and do rags that they play checkers on when nobody is looking.

Flame on.

[Deadly]

They talking about Iran Deadly? Only if Isreal does not strike first that is what I think our Governement is hoping for. Honestly and I know just about everyone here totally disagrees with this but if President Houdini was in office I would kill them all starting with Saudi Arabia. I know there are tons of good people over there but they are not good enough to control the bad element so how good are they? I know the Saudi's are our only friends over there but seeing 97% of the September 11th highjackers came from the kingdom I would start with them with their gay looking beards and do rags that they play checkers on when nobody is looking.

Flame on.

Well, OK. How would you "kill them all"?

Nukes? We don't have a large enough army to invade and murder whole populations, not even for small countries like Saudi Arabia.

Remember, "killing them all" includes the sick, elderly, all the children, and all the women. Do you really want to do that? World opinion be damned, of course.

And, who specifically is "them all"? All Muslims, including American (mostly Black) Muslims? There are over a billion of "them" in the world, including some rather large numbers of "them" living in Europe. Do you think that Germany, Great Britain, France, Spain, Russia, China, etc, are going to let us waltz in and exterminate large numbers of their people based on ethnicity or religion, or do you propose we go to war with those countries too?

How do you, President Houdini, propose to deal with the disruption of world oil production? What would happen to the world and American economies? And, when the economy tanked, how would you pay for, or even prosecute your war? It takes oil to invade, kill, and conquer, you know.

How do you, President Houdini, propose to deal with the reactions of Europe, Russia, Iran, and China to our threatening to control the biggest oil and gas reserves on the planet? Must we be ready to go to war with them, too?

Are you, President Houdini, so hard hearted that you don't care for the deaths of potentially 10's of millions of Americans who would have to be drafted into the military to carry out your extermination plans? Not to mention the inevitable terrorist attacks in the US. How would you convince the public to support such an undertaking for many years? Speaking in practical political terms, of course. This is a particularly important consideration given that you will be coming into office after the Bush administration's Iraq war. The public is not likely to be so trusting of "the propaganda" as W. once called it.

Of course, there would be a lot of political dissent against your war, President Houdini. Would you round up those who criticize your administration and slap them in the Texas detention facilities that Bush is now having built to deal with illegal immigrants? All you have to do is declare them "enemy combatants". W's set that one up for you: no habeas or other rights for those suckers! Are you going to shoot them? Let them have their say, and maybe elect a liberal president to replace you?

How would you pay for the military that it would take to carry out your plans? Are you going to borrow the money from the Chinese and Saudis? Uh, maybe not the Saudis. All this will be done without raising taxes on the US public, I presume. Or, do you expect the general public to pitch in and start paying double or triple income and other taxes to cover the tab for destroying one of the world's major religions and over a billion people, oops, I mean foreigners, uh I mean (fill in the appropriate religious/racial slur)?

Assuming that somehow you accomplished your goals of "killing them all" and in the process remove Islam from the planet, what kind of place will America be? A shining example of liberty and religious freedom to the world? Or, ... well, you fill in the blank.

We see how well the military option has worked in Iraq. We killed all those who opposed us: the al-Qaeda terrorists, the insurgents who wanted the invaders out of their country, the tribal factions attacking each other and disrupting civil order, and last but not least, the thugs who kidnapped for profit. "They" are all dead, and all's well.

Back to nukes again. If used they certainly wouldn't kill the whole population of a country unless we went for a nuclear winter end of all human life on the planet conflagration. There would always be a few of them lurking in the countryside, hell bent on revenge. And, they can wait. It might be decades, but those guys would be motivated to hit us back, and hard. Shades of 9/11! So nukes won't work.

It seems, Mr. President, that your desires to "kill them all" are just totally impractical. I'm not so sure of the morality exterminating large human populations because a few of them are criminals, or worse either. But, that is another question altogether.

[Deadly]

I know there are tons of good people over there but they are not good enough to control the bad element so how good are they?

Does that just apply to "them" or to everyone, including us?

We cerainly are not "good enough" to control many of the bad elements here. Consider: gangs, illegal drugs and related crimes, political corruption, Aboo grab, Fox News, the Waco Texas mess, Lindsey Lohan, unnecessary wars, and stolen presidential elections.

[Houdini]

well I think maybe we could give the camels some disease that they would get as they rode them to work or something.

[Houdini]

Remember, "Killing them all" includes the sick, elderly, all the children, and all the women. Do you really want to do that? World opinion be damned, of course.

only really the woman and children because the sick and the elderly are already on there way out.

Honestly I don’t want to kill them all because they are criminals I just know something that apparently you do not know or do not want to believe. That this crap that is going on will not stop no matter how we treat them until one of us is gone. It is not that we are in there backyard like we are now in Iraq it is that we exist. Well excuse me for existing Sheik Muhammad al smel lik camel all daye I will not go into that good night without a fight.

[law.of.averages]

Wow! I wish I wasn't heading to bed and had time to come up with a response. But I need something quick, I can't just let it go.

I know!

But Houdini, how will that help stop Global Warming?

[Avaris]

Wow... I wish I wasn't heading to bed and had time to come up with a response... But I needs something quick, I can't just let it go...

I know...

But Houdini, how will that help stop Global Warming?

So just why is our children not learning?

[law.of.averages]

Wow... I wish I wasn't heading to bed and had time to come up with a response... But I needs something quick, I can't just let it go...

I know...

But Houdini, how will that help stop Global Warming?

So just why is our children not learning?

Thank you Av. With your advice, and the generous help of Microsoft Word I was able to correct the grammar, spelling, and punctuation mistakes of my previous message. I don’t know where we would be without you.

After all, if we’re going to discuss the wholesale slaughter of entire countries; we should be prepared to cross every ‘T’ and dot every ‘I’.

[Deadly]

Of course, there would be a lot of political dissent against your war, President Houdini. Would you round up those who criticize your administration and slap them in the Texas detention facilities that Bush is now having built to deal with illegal immigrants? All you have to do is declare them "enemy combatants". W's set that one up for you: no habeas or other rights for those suckers! Are you going to shoot them? Let them have their say, and maybe elect a liberal president to replace you?

My bad. I misremembered the specifics in the article about Bush his request for expanded deteniton facilities for illegal immigrants. Here's the link:
http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/ ... i/62/21244

And, here are links to articles detailing the concerns about a president's ability to declare anyone, including you and me an enemy combatant, who has no rights to challenge their detention in court.
http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/ ... i/64/22567
http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/ ... i/64/22767
http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/ ... i/64/22834
http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/ ... i/64/22843

[law.of.averages]

One thing that really gets me about Deadly's first link...

The present military build-up in the Gulf would allow the US to mount an attack by the spring. But the sources said that if there was an attack, it was more likely next year, just before Mr Bush leaves office.

This really smells of a "Let's leave the democrats with a host of problems they'll have to handle, instead of their own agenda" tactic.

Like when the kids were little and would fight over something to the point where one would break it, just to keep the other from having it.

[Deadly]

Remember, "Killing them all" includes the sick, elderly, all the children, and all the women. Do you really want to do that? World opinion be damned, of course.

only really the woman and children because the sick and the elderly are already on there way out.

Honestly I don’t want to kill them all because they are criminals I just know something that apparently you do not know or do not want to believe. That this crap that is going on will not stop no matter how we treat them until one of us is gone. It is not that we are in there backyard like we are now in Iraq it is that we exist. Well excuse me for existing Sheik Muhammad al smel lik camel all daye I will not go into that good night without a fight.

So how do you know that extermination is the only way? How can you assert with 100% certainty that: "That this crap that is going on will not stop no matter how we treat them until one of us is gone."? What is your evidence that changing how we treat "them", in a positive way, will have no effect or benefit?

Perhaps we haven't fully explored ALL of the alternatives to mass murder.

And, until all alternatives have been tried, or at least seriously and fully considered, I think it's premature to abandon them in favor of the greatest mass murder of all history. And, it seems that you are abandoning any pretense of morality in your solution.

Solutions, like "killing them all" are attractive because of the simplicity. However, given the impossibility of killing so many people spread across the globe in so many countries, what can actually be done?

Have you ever considered that the fight that needs to be fought to delay your journey into that good night can, and indeed must, be fought in the minds of humanity, our side and theirs both, not on the battlefields and bloody bodies of our brothers and sisters?

And yeah, a nonviolent solution may take a while, even generations of hard work, sacrifice, and many lives. So in many respects how is that different from the task facing those choosing mass murder as the "only solution"? Which route is more worth trying first?

The Buddha said something like: "Hatred is never extinguished by hatred. Hatred is only extinguished by love."

Jesus said something like: "Turn the other cheek."

Saddam Insane destroyed his weapons of mass destruction due to the diplomatic and economic force used against him.

Ghandi kicked the Brits out of India using nonviolent force.